And the TIME cover goes to



Amen, and power to them.


Just sayin’.


Kindly elaborate on the point you seek to make by selectively quoting me out of context from a different topic.

Make it good, I’m not in the mood for your bullshit here.


Nor I yours.

Did you say that, or didn’t you? Did you mean something that is impossible to understand, even in the context of your earlier rant? Otherwise, it seems pretty clear.


I totally understand someone wanting to get their hands on Ashley Judd.


Nothin wrong with wanting.


Speaking of your quote, I find it odd that Rose McGowen isn’t on the cover. She spoke out way before this current movement ever took off in the mainstream’s conscious.


Having re-read the entire quote, Spoon’s point was those who put themselves in a position to be abused knowing full well what Weinstein was about BEFORE they got into it with him then waited until he was on his was way out and had no potential for career consequences before saying something can go fuck themselves.

Right or wrong, that’s what I read in context.


IMO, that is victim blaming. I wasn’t trying to hide the context. I was simply reacting to a statement that, in my view of the world, is reprehensible (within Spoon’s context or in isolation) in the worst possible way. I am simply arguing my opinion about it, not trying to misrepresent Spoon. Everyone can read his post, and agree with me or not.

Again, the statement I disgree with is this:


I’m not quite sure how “The incredible insidiousness of the Weinstein case” is a different topic.


Yet you posted the comment, cherry-picked by you, devoid of the context of the rest of my post and without a working link so someone else could look and see what I said.

Furthermore, I’ve asked you what your point is in digging up my quote, and while you haven’t deigned to answer the question directly the most I can glean from your comments today is that you disagree with a comment I made weeks ago. You can dig up the comment and post it here in THIS thread in order to disagree with it, and you did so. Alternatively, you could have just replied to it IN THE CONTEXT OF ITS ORIGINAL THREAD…which you didn’t do.

I still want to know why you chose the difficult course rather than the simple one. I suspect there IS a reason and I’m inviting you to own it for a change.

Well then, I’ll try to help you out. The topic we are posting in is called “And the TIME cover goes to” rather than “The incredible insidiousness etc.” Clearly they are not the same topic, and therefore they are different one from the other.

Can you see it now?


Oh, so the women who came forward about Weinstein have nothing to do with this Time cover and the #Metoo phenomenon. OK.

Jesus H fucking Cheerist.


Let me spell it out for you:

I was wondering if you had the balls to apologize for that comment after all that has come out since you made it. I guess I should have known better than to entertain the possibility.


@LotusBud and @SnowflakeySpoon

I’ve been in a similar position to the #metoo women. I often ask myself how could I have done things differently to have avoided the situation I was in. I often wonder if my silence has brought others pain because I didn’t report. I also had to work with the pig in question later in my career and I still said nothing for various reasons.

I feel I have some responsibility in the events that unfolded because of choices I made during the exchange and my subsequent decisions including not quitting my job because I had to work with said pig. If I made certain decisions, like the decision to stay silent and not give up my career knowing what had gone on, am I responsible at all?

Furthering that, if I decide to work for a man who is a known harasser, rapist, assaulter, and I know but but I work for the person despite knowing what he does to women, do I have any responsibility if I am exposed to that man’s sexual misconduct?

I feel I have responsibility in part.


I’m going to assume you are presenting this, finally, as an answer to my question about what your point was in all of this uncivil behavior.

It doesn’t sound very much like you are really interested in an answer to your question about my cojones, since you have stated the question in such a highly discourteous way as to leave no possibility for any real discussion. So, I’ll just take a page from your playbook and be slippery and sanctimonious.

I am still okay with the previous statement. And if you truly can’t see why my position is principled and legitimate, you have my sympathy because after all, this is English we are speaking here.

I still see a substantive difference between women who have suffered under our misogynistic culture but were afraid to protest until it became fashionable, and women for whom the suffering was never okay and they at some point drew a line and defended it. And I recognize that the current fashionability of speaking up has changed the game because it’s such a large groundswell. It is the groundswell that made the cover of Time, not the individual women.

You may be unaware that there are other institutionalized, systemic injustices in the world besides this one, injustices to which men are just as vulnerable as women. And other men see male victims of such injustice in this same way that I outlined above. Such victims are either too ineffectual to defend themselves, or they are willing to put their asses on the line in some way to get some justice.

I think that’s all I’ve got for you here, Lotus. Take it or leave it, but either way…kindly quit trolling my thread.


Starling, since you named me in the post I will say that I hope my last post may address your two questions from my perspective. If not, please pursue them further with me.



I won’t even LOL about the hypocrisy in plain sight below.

And in another thread with a related topic: